Authentic Conversations with Entrepreneurs Episode 7: “Break Through the Grip of Fear” with Bisi MacGregor

In this episode of “Authentic Conversations with Entrepreneurs,” I spoke with Life & Mindset Coach Bisi MacGregor on how to Fear LESS in your life & business.


Katherine Morales: Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome to Authentic Conversations with Entrepreneurs. This is our seventh episode. And I am thrilled to have Bisi MacGregor here with us. She is a Life and Mindset Coach and founder of Fear to Freedom. But you also should know her as the Fear Less, not fearless, Fear Less; hence the words in the background there, Coach. Thank you so much for being here, Bisi. If I can, before we kick off, this show is all about what you hear here, authentic conversations. And what I mean by that is I think we need to break down the barrier of what business success really looks like and what it takes to get there. It’s about highlighting the journey of an entrepreneur and the authentic stories along the way, the stories that really help to ignite your business and share what it’s truly all about, the values and the vision.

I am excited to talk about breaking through the grip of fear with the Fear Less Coach, Bisi. I think I just am so excited about this topic because I think that you cannot be a business owner and entrepreneur without feeling some level of fear. I think that it’s going to be a very relatable topic for our viewers. And if I can ask you, of course, I’ll hush up and let you say hi, Bisi, but I want to ask what does this phrase mean to you? And when did you first come to hear it?

Bisi MacGregor: First off, thank you. I’m super excited to be here and especially excited that I’m episode seven. It’s my favorite number.

Katherine Morales: Yay.

Bisi MacGregor: Yes, I’m super excited to be here. And this is one of my favorite topics, breaking through the grip of fear. And like you rightfully said, there isn’t a business owner or entrepreneur that wouldn’t go through fear. And for me, there is no human out here that doesn’t go through fear.

Katherine Morales: Just beyond business.

Bisi MacGregor: But when was the first time? Oh my goodness, breaking through the grip of fear. That’s a huge question.

Katherine Morales: Like when I was five.

Bisi MacGregor: Seriously. Because I feel like I’ve felt the grip of fear for a very long time in my life.

Katherine Morales: I know at some point you said that.

Bisi MacGregor: At different points in my life. Or from 10, 11, 14. I remember bringing a report card home because I wanted to change schools. And my report was not the best that year for whatever reason, first time for me, first time for the family. And I remember being gripped by this thing. And it was really showing it to my parents and just hedging against, oh my God, they’re going to be so disappointed. What is going to happen? And I could feel this thing in my body today retrospectively. It was fear. It was this grip of fear of disappointing the people that loved me or expected all kinds of things of me. And then, fast forward, I could speak to being in a lucrative corporate career, successful by my own rights and by the looks of a lot of people.

Katherine Morales: All those external measures.

Bisi MacGregor: All the external measures. Yeah. And even internal for me, it was at some point where I wanted to be.

Katherine Morales: Awesome.

Bisi MacGregor: I went to school, undergrad, MBA. I want to go here, and this is what I want to do. And I was there. And then, all of a sudden, I get this visitation. You’re meant to do something different.

Katherine Morales: Visitation.

Bisi MacGregor: Yeah. But wait, what do you mean different? I cannot begin something different now. I’ve invested 10, 12 years of education, of work, and this thing. No, I can’t just… No. And then, I see glimpses of the possibilities, but it’s like, no, I don’t know. That was a huge one for me.

Katherine Morales: Did fear creep in at that point?

Bisi MacGregor: Yep. That’s all fear. All of that dialogue or monologue was all fear. Leave the job now to do what? You’ve invested how many years of education? You’ve invested over two decades in the corporate space, and you want to go build something for yourself? You’ve never done it before. Fear says, “Wait, wait, wait. Yeah, see? You’ve never done it before. Let’s just-”

Katherine Morales: Of course you should fear it because you’ve never done it before.

Bisi MacGregor: Never done it before.

Katherine Morales: Obviously, we know you didn’t get stuck there. So, how did you get to the breakthrough part, and what was the journey along the way?

Bisi MacGregor: No, I didn’t get stuck and quit.

Katherine Morales: We don’t have a full hour, just to tell you.

Bisi MacGregor: Yeah. But to be honest, I was stuck there for a while. If I were to speak candidly, I would say I overstayed my time in corporate by four to six years. However, on the flip side, I also know that I needed that extra time to be where I am today. But what happened though, along the journey is I climbed the corporate ladder. Fine. I was a star player, star employee, and had teams that I managed. And one of the things that I loved about corporate was my role where I was always in a leadership type of role. I had people that I always managed, and they loved me for it. There was something that I brought to the table for them, and it was building their potential, like drawing out their… I loved it. I was in finance, by the way.

Katherine Morales: Not really in the criteria for the job.

Bisi MacGregor: At all. What I realized was I’d been coaching for as long as I can remember, been coaching. And finally, when I got hit by… I’ll share this. A few years ago, I took on an international assignment with my corporate job. I was out there for two years helping to build out the subsidiary out there-

Katherine Morales: Where’s there?

Bisi MacGregor: Nigeria. And upon coming back, things did not work out the way we expected, not me, not the organization, all of that. And upon coming back, it was coming back to a, what we would call a failure. And it was, oh my God, here you are, this star employee. Now, you come back from this mission, and you are not glowing with stars. Who are you? So, walking the hallways like this, but it was-

Katherine Morales: Fear’s cousin is shame? Is that?

Bisi MacGregor: Right? It really has a whole bunch of minions. The shame, the blame, all those things. But I remember walking the hallways with my head down. And not only was I going through this thing internally with this job, but this organization that I absolutely loved, but on a personal front as well, my marriage was crumbling. Here I am, I go to work, I’m facing this thing. I go back home, I’m facing this thing. But it really was a call to, Bisi, who are you? What do you want? And that’s when I realized for different amounts of periods of time, I had been trapped in this thing. Fear had trapped me in these things, in a job that I thought I had this checklist. This is where you’re supposed to go. You go to school, you check this, and then, you get married, and then, you have the kids. And I was checking all the boxes, but everything in here was just not.

Katherine Morales: Disconnected.

Bisi MacGregor: Disconnected completely. That’s why in the whole journey, kind of all right, we got to do something different.

Katherine Morales: Can you take to a moment where this breakthrough happened? I imagine it’s build-up, domino effect, if you will, but what’s a moment that seems most that you can recollect right now in this moment, like right now?

Bisi MacGregor: In this moment.

Katherine Morales: Yeah. A lot of moment there.

Bisi MacGregor: One of those moments, these fear moments.

Katherine Morales: What do you recall?

Bisi MacGregor: I’ll tell you. I remember after just maybe 18 months, head down, just doing my work, but just not really going to the cafeteria, not really mingling… But something, I felt like I was growing, but I didn’t have the space to grow. Think about, you’re wearing tight shoes. And now, you’re a size 10, but you’re fitting your feet into a size six. It’s just something just was not… It felt so uncomfortable. And I remember asking a colleague then who used to go on all kinds of retreats. And I said asked her, “What is this retreat that you’ve been to because I need to go be.” And they lean in, and they’re waiting for the rest of the statement. I said, “No, no, no, that’s it. I need to go be.”

Katherine Morales: Yeah, period.

Bisi MacGregor: And she told me where it was. I ended up signing up for this three-day weekend thing at the Kripalu Yoga and Meditation Center in Massachusetts. So, we said, “All right, I’m going to go out here.” And I was brave. I signed up and all that. And I remember there was a seminar that was going on there. And as soon as I saw it, the seminar said, “Fearless living, live the life that your soul was intended.” And when I read it, I swear, it said, “Fearless living, Bisi, go live the life your soul was intended.” So, I signed up. I signed up. And here’s the thing. Talking about fear and being in the grip of fear, I remember driving. Then, I lived in New Jersey, and it would’ve been a four and a half hour drive to this place. I remember driving, and I was excited. Like, yes, this is it. I’m going to go be. Three days of just… Two hours in, I remember hearing the, you don’t know anybody there. What are you going to go? You have no clue. You’ve never been there. You don’t know anyone there.

Katherine Morales: What are you thinking?

Bisi MacGregor: What are you thinking? Listen, if you slow down, you don’t even have to go to the speed limit. Just slow it down. You don’t have to get to that fearless living, live the life your soul was intended. And I would slow that down. And then, there’s another piece of me that comes up and says, “What the heck? This is what we signed up for.” And then, you speed it up. And all of that. Eventually, I got there, and I walked into this room. She had already started, I think, 45 minutes in, after I kept having all kinds of battle with fear.

Walked in, and I tell you, Katherine, something inside of me recognized exactly her. It was like my soul spoke to her soul. And I just knew it. And in that moment, something said, “This is it. This is what you are meant to be doing.” So, I said to myself, I said, “All right, fine. I will talk to this person afterwards to shadow her. I don’t care where she came from. I want to shadow. I want to learn how she does this.” And that was Rhonda Britten. She’s the founder of the Fearless Living Institute. And this is what she does. Right there, I signed up to go back to school for a year and get trained as a life coach.

Katherine Morales: Wow. Wow.

Bisi MacGregor: Those moments, those moments.

Katherine Morales: There’s so much there, and I so appreciate you sharing those details, Bisi, because I think that I love that you said you felt a call. And it’s one thing, we can listen to our heads, and gosh, there’s so much that wants to be said and heard there. But you listen, wherever you want to say it comes from, but I think heart to heart, soul to soul, there’s a different voice to be heard. It’s beautiful that you followed that. And I think as much as I said, take us to that moment, it’s almost as if you made your moment then.

Bisi MacGregor: Yeah. Yes. I love that.

Katherine Morales: I want to go there next. I’ll say, in preparing for this conversation, you told me that today, let’s fast forward a little bit, but today, in your business, as the Fear Less Coach, fear still visits you every single day.

Bisi MacGregor: Every day.

Katherine Morales: I think that that can be relatable on many fronts for people. What tips would you offer? What do you do when that happens? And is it about making a moment a different moment when you find yourself in that one?

Bisi MacGregor: I love that. Yes, yes, and yes. As the Fear Less Coach, I get visited by fear. For me, it’s in those… I love that you said it almost seems like you made that moment, you made things. And for me, I believe that is true to a certain extent because I believe every moment offers us to be in service to fear or freedom. We are always at choice, always at choice. I think ultimately, I would’ve been okay if I had turned around and gone back home. I would’ve been okay in the long run. I may not be having this conversation with you in July 2022. Maybe it would be July 2028. But I would’ve been okay. So, yes, I do-

Katherine Morales: I’m glad it’s today.

Bisi MacGregor: Oh gosh. Yes. So, yes. Make our moments, in a way. And it’s by making these conscious, powerful, intentional decisions in the moment, and they don’t always feel good. That’s another thing.

Katherine Morales: Nothing is always.

Bisi MacGregor: It’s a misconception out there that if it feels good and feels yay, flowery, that means I’m on the right path. Sometimes, the best decision does not feel good.

Katherine Morales: That’s very insightful. Yeah.

Bisi MacGregor: It can be scary. Even a corporate job where the salary is sure. I have a bonus. I have a beautiful office. I’m overlooking the Hudson River. Wait, and you’re going to go start? You’re going to have your office in your bedroom or in your basement? What’s going on? It is scary. It’s really scary. For me, it’s really going back in and really connecting to the heart, like you said, your heart. What do you want?

Katherine Morales: Listening to that second voice.

Bisi MacGregor: What do you want? What do you desire? Because it’s there. But we have been conditioned to just think and believe that our desires aren’t possible. Or it’s going to take time, it’s going to take effort. It’s going to take all these things that I don’t know. I don’t have it.

Katherine Morales: There’s the overwhelm part of… The cousin, overwhelm.

Bisi MacGregor: Yeah. Really listening to your heart is number one. And then, making a decision from that place, place of freedom.

Katherine Morales: The action, right?

Bisi MacGregor: Place of heart, place of love, as opposed to a place of fear. One of the things that I learned on this journey is a statistic that’s out there that talks about more than 75% of our decisions are made by fear. They’re rooted in fear.

Katherine Morales: Wow.

Bisi MacGregor: More than 75% of our decisions. And I know, people listen when I say, “Oh yeah, that decision I made,” and no, no, no. Every decision you make, and we are making decisions. Should I wear those earrings? Should I wear that shirt? Should I wear it or not? Should I put my hair up, not put it up? Should I call her, not call her? Should I attend this live stream? No. We are making decisions. And 75% of the time, each one is rooted in fear.

Katherine Morales: Wow.

Bisi MacGregor: And that only means we are on autopilot. That’s what that means. Autopilot.

Katherine Morales: So many good thoughts, Bisi. So many. Gosh, I have to just say for a moment, this is one of the things that I see so clearly in working in marketing and branding, that it makes sense to me. I think there’s a relationship there. So much in marketing is about marketing to the fear in someone. What is that pain point? What is the problem? That’s something that I hope to resolve and bring a different perspective to. But I hear you loud and clear on that.

The other thought I had about what you were sharing. You talked about almost being confined, or in a cage, or entrapped by fear, and then, an expanding. So visual. I love it. But do you think that… To me, the moment that I think you have to be in when you’re in fear is a victim mode. You feel that, right? And I think, are you saying… The word I’ve often used is transcend fear. Do you think, is that how you would say it? Because I gave this presentation a couple years ago, pre-COVID, that likens it to a roller coaster in business, saying that entrepreneurs often go from hope to fear, hope to fear, and that you really have to… And I think that’s what you’re speaking to. It has to feel good. Hope feels good. So, what does that transcendence or what does that freedom look like and feel like? If it’s not good, what is it?

Bisi MacGregor: Yeah. I love that you mentioned the visual because the way I used to explain this was I was trapped in a blue drum. I don’t know why it was blue, but it was blue. It was a blue drum. It was almost like I could see from the outside. It has the lid on it, and it has a padlock, and it’s locked. I’m inside of it. I’m growing. But I can’t grow but to the capacity of the drum. But what was interesting for me in the journey was whilst I was in this padlocked drum, the key to the padlock was inside the drum with me.

Katherine Morales: Of course.

Bisi MacGregor: And I feel like that’s the-

Katherine Morales: It’s not outside. You’re looking for it outside.

Bisi MacGregor: Because we are looking for somebody, “Hey, Bob, could you open up the drum for me? Hey, Katherine, could you open up the drum?” But the key is inside. Even if they could help you, the key is inside of the drum. And that was so big for me. And when you talk about to hope, to fear, to hope, to fear, I think one of the misconceptions is as business entrepreneurs, even human, we think everything needs to be, we need to be on a high. We need to be on a high, we need to be… And one of the biggest things that I’ve learned on this entrepreneurial journey is who am I up here? Who am I down here? Where am I up here? Who am I down here? Can I hold my power? Can I hold my authenticity? Can I hold myself in love? Can I hold myself in kindness? Can I still stay connected to my heart? That heart-soul connection that we’re talking about when I’m up here and when I’m down here, when I’m up here, when I’m down here. Can I hold myself?

And that’s the, for me, the transcendence and the moving through fear. Because what happens with most and happened with me, and sometimes, I still get caught. We’re good here. It’s so easy for us to pull out the pompoms, and to dance, and to whistle, and clink clink the champagne glasses when we are up here. But when we’re down here, people just… That’s it.

Katherine Morales: All kinds of coping things they do, but it’s not necessarily grounded.

Bisi MacGregor: Right. People unplug literally, completely. And then, beat themselves up or blame themselves, compare why they’re in the ditch, which just makes you stay there longer and longer. But can you hold yourself through, can you just see that it’s simply fear doing its job. It’s part of the journey. Because after a while, you do come back up. But could you be kinder to yourself whilst you’re down here?

Katherine Morales: I literally feel like I’ve moved from the roller coaster visual to… That would move mountains. That would just move mountains. I know that’s what you’re doing every day. Beautiful. Beautiful.

Bisi MacGregor: And I tell you, Katherine, if I may, it’s not always easy. I know we’re talking about this, and we’re like, “Yes, yes, exactly. Exactly.” But it is not always easy. It’s not easy.

Katherine Morales: Saying it’s one thing. Doing it is a whole nother.

Bisi MacGregor: No, it’s not easy at all because that’s the heat. You’re in the heat, you’re in the fire when you’re down here. And it’s like, “Do I run out of the fire? Do I just… Let me just.” No, can you stand in it?

Katherine Morales: Amen.

Bisi MacGregor: And how long can we stand in it?

Katherine Morales: And we both have the fire… Mentioned that we both have the fire in our logo. So, I definitely love that about your business too. And the thing I say about the fire is that we want to recognize the warmth of it and all the good things. But I don’t endorse anybody actually standing physically in a fire, obviously.

Bisi MacGregor: No, do not try this because you-

Katherine Morales: But what I mean is that when you become the coach, the entrepreneur, that takes moving through fear.

Bisi MacGregor: Yes.

Katherine Morales: That takes standing in the risk to be burned. What if it doesn’t work out?

Bisi MacGregor: Yes.

Katherine Morales: I believe that every entrepreneur is naturally inclined to do this, to move through it. I was really emphasizing the word break because that’s what we want to do. We’re going to break through fear and punch it. I break that glass. But what really resonated with me right there was the through, a move through it. I think for some people, it might be one, two, punch. But for other people… And that’s actually my next episode “One Step at a Time” because I talk a lot about finding your rhythm in business and moving through something at your pace.

Bisi MacGregor: Yes. Yes.

Katherine Morales: So yeah. More on that in a little bit. I think there’s just so much richness to what you have to share, Bisi. We’ve had lunch, and thank God you’re close to me here in Georgia, but we could actually have a physical lunch in person, which is wonderful. But I know that our viewers would love to hear more. So, where can they find you? What do you have to share with them?

Bisi MacGregor: For your audience, I would give them a course that I have, and it’s called Face Your Fear.

Katherine Morales: Whole course?

Bisi MacGregor: Yeah. A whole course. Face Your Fear. And this is super important because-

Katherine Morales: Face your fear.

Bisi MacGregor: Face your fear because the thing is a lot of people think it’s just them. I’m Italian, I’m Nigerian, this is it. But it’s really fear. And you said something about standing in the fear, standing in the fire, and it strengthens you. And it enables, it’s part of the journey. And one of the things that Rhonda Britten says in her book about fear is fear is an affirmation of your growth. The only time fear comes through, the only time you feel fear is when you are stepping outside of your comfort zone, which means you are expanding. But instead of you seeing it as a stop, a detour sign, let’s pull out the pompoms and celebrate. This course here is really to help you identify what holds you back and keeps you in that comfort zone.

Katherine Morales: Or the blue drum.

Bisi MacGregor: So, it helps you put a face to your fear and discover what kind of mindset it is that helps you spin on this wheel. There’s a quiz in there that would help you just-

Katherine Morales: Love a good quiz.

Bisi MacGregor: There’s also a fear response sheet because we have these fear responses to help you identify how your fear shows up. If I said, “Hey, Katherine, could you interview someone?” You’re like, “Of course, sure.” It’s not a thing for you. Somebody else would say, “I’m sweating. I’m overwhelmed. Oh my God, I can’t do this.” It’s different for everyone. What is your response to fear? So, that I would love to give that to your audience. It’s a $200 value.

Katherine Morales: I know I’m going for it. Oh, a $200 value?

Bisi MacGregor: Yes.

Katherine Morales: And you’re giving it free?

Bisi MacGregor: Free, listen-

Katherine Morales: So giving, Bisi. I am literally, after this, going and getting it. I don’t know if it was just a coincidence, but I have to quickly tell you that, obviously, I think living through a pandemic, there’s some level of fear in everybody, a journey of that. Well, I’ve evaded COVID until this month. That’s why we delayed our episode. Thank you for being understanding. So, I catch COVID. Thank God, vaccines and all, and I’m okay. But then, I have to take you to a moment. Sunday, my belated birthday party, because yes, I had COVID during my birthday. And I’m on the boat with a family and a few friends. We rented a boat and went out on a lake. And there’s a slide on this boat. My daughter, who’s five, and my niece and nephew, who are six and four, are also on the boat.

My brother-in-law goes down the slide, and he’s like, “Yeah.” And then, my husband goes down the slide. Yeah. And they’re like, “Yeah, go, go, go.” So, I get up there because it’s on the top. And I have had this boat before, but I forgot how the slide is on the top deck. And it ends before the boat ends. And then, you just fly off into the water. I’m up there, and no lie, I turned 38 years old. And you like to think you’re just as brave as could be. And literally, it’s that incline. I’m like, “Oh, if it was just not as inclined, I could do it.” So, I stood up there for at least 10 or 15 minutes contemplating with fear on my shoulder.

And my nephew comes up, the six-year-old, and he looks, and he’s nervous at first. But after a few minutes, he decides to go down. He beat me to it. And then, he loved it. I’m tell happened quickly in the story. I sat on it twice, and I literally, the second time I sat on it, contemplating going down, I said, “It’s just like life. You just got to get over hump.” And I literally knew what I needed to do. But I couldn’t will myself to it. So, I wanted to mention this because I want your final thoughts on this because I ended up doing, what I needed was somebody to help me. So, I said, “Hun,” to my husband. I was like, “I need you to push me.”

So, this video I posted on Facebook of me going down the slide, he came behind me and you don’t really see that he pushed me. He started to do a hard push. I was like, “No.” But a very gentle nudge. And I closed my eyes, and then, this, and I went down that slide and screamed. But I just think, I wonder, I think one, it’s so insightful that fear still visits you. And that whether you’re… My daughter went on it after me, which is great. But whether you’re five or you’re 38, it still lives in you somewhere in that inner child.

Bisi MacGregor: Yes.

Katherine Morales: And I think that I just wonder, and I think that’s what you do in your job, but it’s whether it’s helping them find the key or giving that gentle nudge, is that a great illustration of your-

Bisi MacGregor: That is a perfect illustration, Katherine. And first off, congratulations. As you were describing this, I’m seeing… The people that went before you. If you’re an entrepreneur, let’s just put this in a corner.

Katherine Morales: So relatable.

Bisi MacGregor: The people that went before you see them doing this. You see them, yay. And then, you go, “Okay, I’m going to do it. I’m going to do it.” And then, you get up there.

Katherine Morales: Why can’t I do it?

Bisi MacGregor: I want to launch a podcast, but I can’t. I don’t want to… Oh my God, what if people? What if people? And then, you see the little boy that comes over and does it. You see people who start after you’ve started, and they take off. And in that moment, you still also have a choice. You can either look to say, “Okay, this wasn’t meant for me.” Or, “Okay, he can do it. I can.” And perhaps, all right, this is what I need. I need someone to usher me. I want, need somebody to guide me. And that’s what you did.

Katherine Morales: Know what you need.

Bisi MacGregor: Yeah. That’s it. But it takes awareness. It takes awareness. It takes being kind to yourself.

Katherine Morales: I’m not shaming myself for that at all.

Bisi MacGregor: Like you said, when the kid who went by, you were like, “He beat me to it.” Even just being kind. We’re not in a race against one another.

Katherine Morales: Celebrating one another.

Bisi MacGregor: If anything, he’s just evidence that you could do it. And I love that you did it. And then, your daughter did it after you because-

Katherine Morales: Yeah. You know how I got my daughter to do it?

Bisi MacGregor: You did?

Katherine Morales: Well, I didn’t push her. I told her, I was like, “Come on, you can do this. Mama did it.” And then, I said, “Well, you won’t get a cupcake unless you go down the slide.” And I didn’t really mean it. I did not really mean it, but she ended up going down and pushing herself down. And later on, the next day I said, “I’m so proud of you, hun. I’m so proud you went down that slide. Such a brave girl.” And then, I said, “What made you do it?” She goes, “I wanted the cupcake.”

Bisi MacGregor: Where’s my cupcake? Absolutely. And that’s also another lesson right there. What is it that motivates you? What is your desire? Knowing that your desire and your destination is sure, the in-between is just the journey. Her desire was the cupcake. If it’s to go down this slide, I’ll do it. I’ll do it. But I’m having a cupcake.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Bisi MacGregor: I love it.

Katherine Morales: Well, thank you for allowing me to share that story. And I think it’s just so illustrative of a couple points like we need each other.

Bisi MacGregor: Yes.

Katherine Morales: And we need those motivations. We need to treat ourselves, and we need motivation. All of those. Gosh, it’s just one word, fear. But distant cousins, all these pieces that touch it. So beautiful. I’m going to put up where everyone can find you besides the course, which hopefully, they’ve already gotten. This is your website, and you must follow Bisi on any of these channels, you’re on. She’s on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. I have to say, I told Bisi when we were starting, before we did it live, that I’ve lived vicariously through her.

So, I have boat outings and Bisi’s all over the country. She has absolutely beautiful postings and stories to share. I encourage you to follow her. And this will be on replay on LinkedIn, but you can also find it on my website hereafter. I just want to thank you again, Bisi, for being here, for being courageous, for day-to-day facing and moving through fear, and inspiring others to do the same.

Bisi MacGregor: Thank you.

Katherine Morales: It’s invaluable. And I know I mentioned briefly before that our next episode is going to be on one step at a time, as we talk about rhythm, and pace, and your business. I’m so excited. That going to be on August 18th at 1:30 Eastern with Jody Klein. And he is a grief coach. He’s a wonderful man, and he has much to share. So, I hope you can join that one as well. But for now, any parting words or we’ll wrap up and give people back some time?

Bisi MacGregor: Well, thank you. Thank you for this platform. Thank you for allowing me to come and be me. I enjoyed this. We just talked. I enjoyed it.

Katherine Morales: Yeah. Like we’re sitting by a fire, right?

Bisi MacGregor: Yeah, right? Exactly. But here, I think parting of words or not last words, but parting words for now is you got this, you can do this. There is no reason why, I’ve realized, that we cannot live the life that we desire.

Katherine Morales: Yes. Today. Starting today.

Bisi MacGregor: There’s no reason. There really isn’t a reason. I don’t care what that desire is, but you got to know how to master fear.

Katherine Morales: Oh yeah. Thank you so much for highlighting that. I think that when an entrepreneur begins that journey, you are set out to live the life you desire.

Bisi MacGregor: Yes.

Katherine Morales: So, why let fear stop you? I hope you all will contact Bisi, make a friend, because she’s a wonderful one. And thank you so much for being here, Bisi.

Bisi MacGregor: Thank you.

Katherine Morales: Take care.

Bisi MacGregor: Bye, everyone.

Katherine Morales: Bye, everyone.