Authentic Conversations with Entrepreneurs Episode 12: “Honoring Your Needs” with Jennifer Phelps

In this episode of “Authentic Conversations with Entrepreneurs” I spoke with Jennifer Phelps, Relationship Coach for You and Your Space and CEO of Jennifer Phelps: Organize. Design. Reinvent! on the topic of, “Honoring Your Needs.”


Katherine Morales: Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for being here. I know we’re about on the holiday, so hopefully, this is one of the last things you’re doing online before then. You’re here for the Authentic Conversations with Entrepreneurs, and today, we have Ms. Jennifer Phelps, one of my dear friends across the country, she’s over in Arizona. She is a relationship coach for you and your space. Yeah, that’s pretty awesome, right? Because we do have a relationship with our space. So we’re going to talk a little bit about that. But she’s also the owner of Jennifer Phelps Organize.Design.Reinvent!. She is a wonderful speaker. And I think what, with COVID, you expanded to not having to actually physically be in the space, because that was so challenging, right?

Jennifer Phelps: Yeah. I’m working online, so I can work with anybody, because once we start getting some ahas and we start making change in your space, I mean, it just starts flowing.

Katherine Morales: Like breakthroughs?

Jennifer Phelps: Yeah. So really there’s a lot we can do-

Katherine Morales: We’re going to talk more about that, you and me, separately from this conversation. But yes-

Jennifer Phelps: Everyone should talk to me!

Katherine Morales: So yeah, I just… God, I wish we already had more time. But yes, this is our 12th episode of Authentic Conversations, and I always like to begin by saying, we are talking about honoring your needs here with Jennifer, but I always like to say, explain again, what is Authentic Conversations with Entrepreneurs all about? Why am I doing this? I just believe, and I think this conversation in particular, Jennifer, thank you for being open to it, I just think we have to be real in business. There’s a lot we can read about the successes of entrepreneurs, and we do need to celebrate those wins. But the journeys we take, the real human experience of being an entrepreneur and all the stuff it brings up for you that makes you as killer as you are as an entrepreneur, needs to be discussed. So I call that the good and the growing. It’s the true authenticity. And this show is all about that, sharing those stories, the brave, courageous souls that want to share the vulnerability of truly being authentic.

So thank you so much, Jennifer. And let’s just start at the beginning, Honoring Your Needs. What is that about to you? We know who you are, you can say hi again, but what does that mean to you?

Jennifer Phelps: Hi. Well, I have not, in my life, been great at honoring my needs. A friend of mine, we talk about childhood trauma and things like that, or narcissistic parents, or whatever else, that we end up being needless. And that can feel like it’s really good, or it’s spiritual, or philosophical or whatever, or humble. But what ends up happening is that we don’t pay attention to what we need, we minimize what we need, we feel selfish for asking for what we need. And in my case, two times and in long-term relationships, because you’re a magnet for people who know how to exploit a needless, wantless person-

… take what they offer, and then, of course, I was not in a position to ask.

So eventually, that almost killed me.

Katherine Morales: We’re diving right in. Jennifer, thank you.

Jennifer Phelps: We’re diving right in. That’s right. And you know, with entrepreneurs-

Katherine Morales: Tell us more. Tell us more.

Jennifer Phelps: We’re entrepreneurs, and Jenny Harkleroad, also an amazing speaker and coach, she’s talking about how, especially in entrepreneurs, we’re killing ourselves for our work. All the balls are in the air. If we drop one ball and we’re a solopreneur especially, or a couple people rely on us, we lose the whole thing, or we are afraid we will. So-

… it’s a lot of pressure for us as entrepreneurs to be on, on all the time.

Katherine Morales: Yeah, yeah. Amen. Thank you for calling that elephant out in the room. I think this conversation is so timely, because, I mean, it’s happening all the time, but the time to really get real with yourself and reflect is here at end of year. I mean, it’s a time where naturally you can look back and say, “This is the journey I’ve taken.” So I know when you said almost killed you, people are going, “Okay, whoa, whoa. What do you mean? Be specific.”

Jennifer Phelps: “Whoa.”

Katherine Morales: So take us to that experience. I mean, what happened?

Jennifer Phelps: Well, we’re talking about my mental health journey here, and I’ve had ups and downs with depression for a long time. I think since junior high. It’s been situational, and it rolls and flows. But eventually, this was the summer before COVID, I started realizing that I was feeling more down than usual and that I wasn’t going to just will myself out of it. So I started seeing a therapist. That wasn’t the right therapist for me, and I got a different therapist. And I just started realizing that, and that one was a really good therapist, I started seeing how I was not going to pull myself out of this one. And this one was different, and I didn’t realize how many months I’d started to drift downward. Lack of confidence, sort of fading into the background. Well, let me say slightly different. I’m a big, bold, outgoing person.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: I was a big, bold, outgoing person, because what’s the face of depression? This. This smile is the face of depression.

Katherine Morales: What? Robin Williams, right?

Jennifer Phelps: Exactly. I’m quoting Robin Williams.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: So nobody knew. See, that’s the other thing. Nobody knew. And as I’m drifting farther and farther into this, I realize I was having suicidal ideations, and I realized that I was going to have to get real help.

And that was a big thing for me. Never judged anybody. I don’t… I’ve never judged anyone for their mental health journey.

But here I was, thinking I could just do it myself. But then I realized that I was going to have to get help, and I had to do it by myself. So as I’m drifting deeper and deeper into this and I’m having serious planning sessions in my brain, I started calling around, and I couldn’t find anyone to take me. I realized-

Katherine Morales: Was that right around the time of COVID, when it was just insane?

Jennifer Phelps: It was the fall before that.

Katherine Morales: Oh, okay.

Jennifer Phelps: Because it was months… This went on a long time, in fact. So I was drifting downward. And then starting that fall, I realized, “Oh my gosh, I have to do something.” And part of me didn’t want to do-

Katherine Morales: It was slow and then sudden? Like, “I absolutely have to.”

Jennifer Phelps: It was like a frog in the pot. It heated up slowly and slowly. But thank goodness there was a part of my brain that said, “You need to get help. You need to make phone calls.”

Katherine Morales: “You’re getting cooked.” Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: “This is not going to change. This is getting serious.”

And I wasn’t telling people. So anyway, it took me months, calling and calling and calling places, when I didn’t want to do anything. And mind you, I’m not really doing much work, because I can compartmentalize. My clients, they get my full attention.

What’s on my mind is not needed in the place.

Katherine Morales: Put yourself last, right? Put yourself last.

Jennifer Phelps: And I can be authentic, but there’s just… I don’t have to be grumpy around them. But when that started being exhausting, me getting energy depleted from working with my clients, that is not me.

Katherine Morales: Right.

Jennifer Phelps: So I’m making phone calls, no one’s taking new patients. Making phone calls, no one’s taking new patients. My insurance place, they didn’t have anybody right now who are taking anybody.

Katherine Morales: Oh my God.

Jennifer Phelps: So this went on for months and months.

Katherine Morales: Here you are trying to honor your needs, and you can’t find someone to help you do that. Yeah. What did you do?

Jennifer Phelps: And I think about people who don’t know how to work that kind of system, they don’t know how to find information, or how to find help.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: And it makes me really sad, because it was really hard for me. I’d go a week or two without making a phone call, because I didn’t want to.

Katherine Morales: Right. Got to will yourself to it. Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps:

So finally, I told my best friend, who also suffers from severe mental health issues and I love her, and thank God, thank God she had experience, I mean, how do you say-

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps:

But I hadn’t told anybody else. So finally, I got a hold of someone who would take me. This was in the end of November. I couldn’t get an appointment till the end of January.

Katherine Morales: That’s insane.

Jennifer Phelps:

So I tried to hang on. There was a piece that had a little hope. But finally, I told my partner at the end of the year, because I hadn’t told him, and I was miserable. I was miserable in the relationship. I was miserable with where my business was going. It was a relationship I shouldn’t have still been in. It was a toxic relationship, and I wasn’t supported. And then I told him, and he never said a word about it after that. Not a hug, nothing.

Katherine Morales: Oh my God.

Jennifer Phelps: I look back, and I’m like, “I can’t even… I don’t even know how.” But I didn’t have the strength to make these changes. You know?

So after I went by myself, I told a couple people, I had to tell my mom that in my mind I had decided that people would be fine without me. My friends would be fine, eventually. Everyone would be sad. I know people love me, but people would get on with their lives, and my mom has another daughter. Can you believe this?

Katherine Morales: Oh my God. Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: I’m telling you, these are crazy things. But a lot of people going through-

Katherine Morales: It’s part of the, yeah, condition. Yeah. It’s part of it.

Jennifer Phelps:

And there’s a spectrum, but it was a slow increase.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: And that’s where I got to, and it felt like a great way out.

So like I said, I told a few people, and then I went and I got medication. I’d never done that before.

I’m not a medicine-y person, but I needed to save my life. Because I could not. It was a chemical brain track. I created that habit in my brain. Chicken or the egg. Was it stress? Was it the overwhelm? Was it the misery? Was it the other things that were happening in my relationship, different kinds of insecurity, and then depression? Or did depression make all of those things worse? I don’t know. But I’ve got to tell you, I thank God every day for that depression. And it had to get so bad that I’m justifying me leaving the planet for me to realize how unhappy I was.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: Got on medication, takes a few weeks. I had to tell my partner, “Oh, by the way, I’m on medication. So if something happens, you need to know what I’m on.” Still no conversation.

Katherine Morales: Oh, God.

Jennifer Phelps: Took a few weeks for it to kick in. I am back on. I am with my clients, starting up. And then March happens, and COVID hits.

Katherine Morales: Like the shit hit the fan, you mean?

Jennifer Phelps: So then all my work shut down again.

Katherine Morales: Oh my God.

Jennifer Phelps: But I had clarity of mind to see what was happening with my partner and in my life, and I said, “Wait a minute, this isn’t happening.” So with no money, I jumped out of that house-

Katherine Morales: “I’m not getting in a lockdown with you.”

Jennifer Phelps: I jumped out of that house, and I got an apartment, not knowing how I’d pay for it, but this is what I’m saying is sometimes the best thing. So the problem was I wasn’t honoring my needs. The problem was I had made it so that I was in an environment of intimate relationships with people who didn’t support me. I had friends who loved me. I wasn’t relying on them. And I kept thinking I could do it myself. I kept thinking I can will myself out of it. And all of those things were the problem, and that was the struggle. And getting treatment was incredible, and yeah, suddenly, clarity of mind. That was an eight-and-a-half-year relationship.

Katherine Morales: Holy crap.

Jennifer Phelps: Yeah. We were living together, and I jumped out. One day, I was just like, “Oh my God, it’s done.” Plucked me, like a hand reached down and plucked me out. And my brain was able to manage that. I was like, “Yes, thank you for the clarity. Thank you for letting me see how bad-

Katherine Morales: Like the fog was lifted.

Jennifer Phelps: … how unhappy was I with wantless and needless that was not serving me.”

Katherine Morales: Yeah. Well, I just want to pause for a second, because, I mean-

Jennifer Phelps: Sorry, to go on, but yeah, that’s my story.

Katherine Morales: No, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, you’re taking us on the whole journey, and I don’t think… I don’t want you to chapter one, chapter two. I think you just got to go, “This is what it is.” And I hope what’s happening for people is, whether you or someone who struggles with a mental health situation, or I know you know somebody who does, and it’s important to not turn a blind eye to it, whether for yourself or for somebody else. And I know I will just say, if you’re okay with it, Jennifer-

Jennifer Phelps: Yeah.

Katherine Morales: So Jennifer released this YouTube video. I don’t know when it was, October maybe of this year?

Jennifer Phelps: It was Mental Health Week, month, day, something.

Katherine Morales: Yeah. Yeah. So you shared your story about depression, and you put it out there. And for myself, different path, but this is about authenticity, and it’s taken our conversation and time for me to share, but we’re lifting the veil of shame here. Because I feel I can similarly say, probably started when I was about a teenager, having issues with anxiety. And I just thought, “Oh, yeah, everybody has that. Everybody has those weird thoughts about the most horrible thing that could possibly happen.” And I think there were years, similar to you, of just getting by with it. It’s just, you’re used to it. It’s just part of who you are, so it feels normal to a certain extent, or you know how to manage it. For myself, it took COVID, and then two years later, the top of this year, where it hit the fan and it was pouring down. Right?

Jennifer Phelps: Yeah.

Katherine Morales: And I think that, similar to you… I mean, I’m so appreciative of you being willing to talk about this. I love this topic of honoring your needs, because you may think you are, but if you have even the slightest inkling of this, life brings you to the place where you will deal with it. And I am so thankful for it. I am so thankful. I probably fell to my knees, and I say I started the year with the word persist, and two months in, I was like, “Surrender, surrender.”

Jennifer Phelps: I know.

Katherine Morales: But it’s about surrendering to the truth of who you are. And I think, if I can just get in my little soap box for a second-

I feel that I am so passionate about this. After my retreat, I talked about my struggles with dermatillomania. That was a journey for me to come out with that. That’s in the OCD family.

Jennifer Phelps: Brave.

Katherine Morales: Thank you. We are not broken people. We’re people who are growing. These are… Honestly, I know I sound crazy, but I see these as superpowers. We have insights into the world in a way that other people don’t. And it makes us stronger because of this journey. I think that-

Jennifer Phelps: If we pay attention to that.

Katherine Morales: Yes, if you honor your needs and face them.

Jennifer Phelps: Some people will avoid it. They don’t want to go into that. They’re afraid to look in there. And the more they look inside themselves, the more compassion we have for others, the more understanding power.

Katherine Morales: That’s how I’m able to do what I do with the authentic work. I think though that I had this aha moment, where I was like, you talked about the genetic factors for you, and I also have that in my family, which is where a lot of the mental health things come from. But I think that we celebrate the creative side of me. Oh, my mother was an artist, and I went to art school, and I have this whole creative side of me, that genetic thing. But we shame the parts that aren’t as acceptable. But I think all of us, in one way or another, have moments of depression, or have actual mental health conditions. I mean, I think I can speak for you too, Jennifer, and say, don’t hesitate to reach out to either of us.

Jennifer Phelps: Yes, a hundred perfect.

Katherine Morales: We see you. We see you.

Jennifer Phelps: Absolutely.

Katherine Morales: And we are here for you.

Jennifer Phelps: Just a conversation. You don’t even have to be like, “Oh my gosh, I am in a pit of despair.” You don’t have to.

Just even talking, ask for a friend.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: Calling in.

Katherine Morales: It’s zero shame in it. I think part of this is important to highlight, because entrepreneurs are people too. And the journey of entrepreneurship is about honoring who you are in every way. And because of the unique journey you’ve had, this experience, let’s go there next. Talk about, is this something that just happens with you, or me, or have you seen some of this with your clients? How does this come into your space?

Jennifer Phelps: Right. It’s interesting, because… I just want to say this is men and women. Men are even less likely to ask for help than women are.

And I feel like that is a terrible shame. And that’s part of one of the big problems in society is that men don’t feel as safe to come forward with these things. And getting a therapist, doing anything, anybody, I think every entrepreneurship should have a therapist. But-

Katherine Morales: Amen. Yes.

Jennifer Phelps: But what’s interesting though is my job is literally to shine light into the dark corners. So I’m a professional organizer, but I coach people around their relationship to their stuff and their space. Because no matter who else is in your life, your environment is a primary relationship. You see it, last thing you see before you go to sleep, first thing you see in the morning, and zap, that impression is made in our brain, goes with that for the rest of the day. Then we see the piles of potions of things telling us that we’re getting old. And then we go in our closet, might have all kind of great clothes, but we’re not going to fit into that outfit, which we think is better, so nothing we put on is going to feel right to us. And then by the time we walk out the door, or walk into our home office, it’s like death by a thousand arrows.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: And then we’re just supposed to go out and be great and rock everything. But we’re already damaging ourselves in our environment from the moment we wake up to the moment we end up at our desk. And then do we want to come home? No. That’s why one of me, the most popular presentation that I’m giving now, that’s in demand is, Are you in a toxic relationship with your space?

Katherine Morales: When are you hosting the next one? Are you doing it virtually? Because I want to be there.

Jennifer Phelps: I only have one posted. I should do that. But it’s like, “Are you in a relationship…” These are questions from psychology today about, how do you know? Does it make you feel bad about yourself, remind you of past mistakes? Do you feel like your partner is working against you fulfilling your dreams?

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: Do you dread coming home? Do you dread coming home because you don’t want to see them? Are you embarrassed-

Katherine Morales: Or if you work from home, are you like, “Holy shit.” Sorry, go on.

Jennifer Phelps: And I’m reading these, and it’s like… And then also, “Are you too embarrassed to have them around family, friends, or god forbid, clients?” I mean, I’m like, “this is exactly the entrepreneurial journey.”

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: Home offices-

Home offices are a disaster.

And that’s my favorite place. I mean, I work with everything, but there is where our mind is. That’s where our heart is. We can see that’s the special spot. And what I love about my work is that, and I’ve always known this, but the clutter, depression, anxiety cycle is well known and documented in the psychological journals, because chicken or the egg.

We stop taking care of our space, because we don’t have the energy, so we’re depressed. Or we get depressed, and then we don’t take care of it, or we don’t take care of it, and then we get depressed. Because it’s like having a thousand tabs open, because our brain’s job is to say, “You didn’t do this, you didn’t do this, you didn’t do this, you didn’t do this, you didn’t do this.” In the blink of an eye, we have our brain opening a thousand tabs telling us what we haven’t done.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: Not saying, “Oh my God, you’re awesome. Look what you did. You’re so good. You’re so amazing. That outfit looks great on you. If your ex saw you in that outfit-

Katherine Morales: That would be a totally different experience.

Jennifer Phelps: That person would cry because you look so great.”

Katherine Morales: Yeah. It’s not that.

Jennifer Phelps: No, we’re like, “I didn’t fit in that outfit, because I don’t exercise and I ate that other thing the other day, and I should do this.” I mean, that is what our brains do. They report, and they report in sequence, and we’re sentient beings, so mind, heart, spirit, all connected.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: So I love the fact that I work with my clients to help them see that as well. And having gone through as deeply as I did, it also makes me even more bold helping people in those dark, dark, dark spaces.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: Now, sometimes it’s a messy closet. It’s not necessarily gremlins. But in our brain, there’s gremlins back there.

Katherine Morales: I love it.

Jennifer Phelps: And sometimes it’s related to trauma, and sometimes it’s all of these other things. And the fact that I can bring this to my clients and that I understand it and that I’ve been through this and have zero judginess.

Katherine Morales: Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps:

Part of my mantra is zero judginess. That’s really powerful. I love being able to do that with people, and having my experience has empowered me even more to empower my own clients.

Katherine Morales: Same here. Same here.

Jennifer Phelps:

I mean, “There, stop. I’m okay with it. You can have your experience, because I’m okay.”

Katherine Morales: Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: You can share it with me.

Katherine Morales: I always say when I feel like the goosebumps, it’s really connecting. I’m just covered in goosebumps all over as you’re talking, Jennifer. I usually ask like, how is connecting with this truth of honoring your needs helped ignite your business? But you just said it there. I mean, you knew it. I know we worked together years ago, and this deep connection and the relationship piece of the work you do has always been there. But I can just absolutely feel through our conversations in this one, especially, the truth of the deepening of that. And I mean, yeah, you just don’t get that anywhere else. You don’t just organize, design, and reinvent. You-

Jennifer Phelps: That is literally-

Katherine Morales: I wrote down-

Jennifer Phelps: The reinvent part is my favorite part.

Katherine Morales: Yeah, yeah. But I wrote down, you said it, and I’m going to say it again, because it was absolutely powerful, you shine a light in the dark corners. That is… I feel like should be your tagline. That is so… It says it all. The stuff you want to hide because it’s shame, it’s not just stuff, it lives in you too. That just absolutely blows my mind.

Jennifer Phelps: All of our stuff tells stories. Our stuff tells stories. Whether it’s that painting that your spouse wants from your mother-in-law in the bedroom, right?

Katherine Morales: Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: Or just things that you have that you think you’re supposed to have, gifts from people who you don’t love and who don’t love you. I mean, it goes on and on. Every little thing’s a story. Some of it’s easy. Some of it’s a trigger.

Katherine Morales: Well, I love that. Yeah, our stuff tells stories, and we hear it every single day.

Jennifer Phelps: What story is your stuff telling you?

Katherine Morales: Yeah. That’s a question.

Jennifer Phelps: That’s what I ask.

Katherine Morales: I mean, I believe in true confessions. So I’m just going to tell you, prior to this life, my husband was giving me his Bluetooth things. They were better than mine. And he looks at my desk, and he’s like, “Whoa, this,” And I was like, “The irony.”

Jennifer Phelps: I don’t see it. I don’t see it, Katherine.

Katherine Morales: I have a screen for a reason. So I am so on board, Jennifer, and I know I’m not the only one. I mean, my first job out of school where I interned, and then I started in Florida, sorry, Rick, his desk was covered. And I feel it, I mean, I’m very similar now, but he had stacks and stacks and stacks. I mean, I remember thinking at that point, I was early in my career like, “Whoa, what is that?” But I so get it now. I have stacks and stacks, and I know exactly where the things are.

Jennifer Phelps: Right.

Katherine Morales: But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t distract. It doesn’t show up in this conversation. It doesn’t show up in client calls, because I’m authentic.

Jennifer Phelps: But you’re looking at that while you’re talking to, potentially, a new client.

Katherine Morales: Yeah. Before we started-

Jennifer Phelps: And there’s a little thing there-

Katherine Morales: … I was like, “What is this sticking out over here?”

Jennifer Phelps: I know. But that’s part of it. It’s like, “Oh, we can’t do that. Oh, if they saw, I can’t…” Then you’re just-

Katherine Morales: It’s the record playing in the background.

Jennifer Phelps: But then your brain is like, “Oh, this is amazing. I’m good at what I do.” And then there’s a piece saying, “Who are you kidding? You can’t even handle your mail pile.”

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: I’m like, I’m a pile maker. I readily admit that. But my tagline is because life is messy.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: It’s messy.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: We just need to have systems and structures in place-

Katherine Morales: Let’s not pretend it’s not. Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: … and just how quickly we can recover.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: It’s life is messy. If we have-

Katherine Morales: Amen.

Jennifer Phelps: … systems, we can let it get messy. We don’t have to judge ourselves. It can do the things it needs to do, and then we can recover more quickly. And when we have two minutes between the soccer games and the whatevers.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: Oh, yeah, being an entrepreneur.

Katherine Morales: Right. Right.

Oh my goodness, Jennifer, I’m so glad we’ve done this. I know people are wondering where to find you, so I’m going to go ahead and stick that up.

Jennifer Phelps: I’m so findable.

Katherine Morales: There’s a .org for the organization of Self, I think as well.

Jennifer Phelps: Yeah. Look for, like organize.

Katherine Morales: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it. So you’ve given so many tips, but what else would you share with our viewers today?

Jennifer Phelps: I would say don’t judge other people. We don’t know what they’re going through. We have no idea. And remember, people keep a smile, but they can be very, very miserable. Reach out to people. And most important, don’t judge yourself. Please reach out. It’s not going to go away. You might manage it, but what kind of life is that? You don’t have to be suicidal like I was.

Katherine Morales: Right.

Jennifer Phelps: We’re just depressed, anxiety, all of these things. Whatever version of things there are in the world, in our brains, please reach out and don’t hesitate to ask somebody. There are online resources if you want to be anonymous. You probably know people who’ve had this experience, but you haven’t reached out to them.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: Do that. And for me, being careful of our environment and how it’s affecting us, because we can go do all of these great things and go to massages and cleanses and business coaches and life coaches, then we walk back into the same house, the same office, and then we try to grow in the same broken pot. So we do all of this other stuff, but we do not address our environment. We talk about global environment, but our literal, what is within reach-

Katherine Morales: Right.

Jennifer Phelps: … is powerful in its effect on you. And it’s very much-

Katherine Morales: Every day.

Jennifer Phelps: … subconscious. But it’s like those thousand tabs with all of those messages that are, like I said, we don’t get the great messages. We get the, “You didn’t do it. You didn’t do enough, you didn’t,” whatever message it says.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: Let’s work on those and do everything we can to support you having a great space and talking who you need to.

Katherine Morales: Yeah. I mean, I’m just… My mind has expanded so much, just from this conversation, Jennifer. I know that we were talking about honoring your needs from a mental health standpoint, but it’s truly eye-opening how… I love that you hit on the massage and all these things, and as an entrepreneur, like a business owner, you probably, maybe you do have like Rick, my boss, it was a wonderful perk, but he would bring in a masseuse to do chair massages. And I mean, the thing is like, yes, that is honoring and self-care and all of that, but I love that you’re connecting your home environment and your home office to a process of honoring those needs, and maybe one of the most important ones.

Jennifer Phelps: And now, like I said, our closet, men and women, full of things that maybe we do retail therapy, and there’s tags hanging on there. That’s like hundreds of dollars hanging on a hangar.

It’s wasted. And we may be trying to live a different life, or have an identity crisis that our clothes in our closet represents to us, or the phases of our life, losses, illnesses, losing jobs, empty nest. There are a million things that our closet alone just triggers. It’s crazy.

Katherine Morales: Wow. Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: We don’t see it as it is.

Katherine Morales: Don’t see the stories.

Jennifer Phelps: Working in helping people do that, I mean, I love working with entrepreneurs, especially, because these are people who are looking to be their best.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: They have an oomph, you know?

Katherine Morales: Yeah, the spark as I call it.

Jennifer Phelps: The spark.

Katherine Morales: Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps:


Katherine Morales: So I say you become an entrepreneur because you want to build the business you desire, you have a vision, but why would you not be in an environment that you desire? Why would you-

Jennifer Phelps: Because we become blind to it. And a lot of therapists say, “Well, go declutter.” Everywhere, declutter. Declutter feels great. And you’re looking around like, “This isn’t clutter, this is my stuff.”

Katherine Morales: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh my goodness. Well-

Jennifer Phelps: So we hear these messages, but we don’t connect them. But if we start paying attention, we’ll realize our own environment is very much contributing to how we feel in general. Our offices and our homes, they either reinforce or fester the things that are happening.

Katherine Morales: Yeah. This seems like… I hope, I know you have a link, so I encourage y’all to book a call with Jennifer.

Jennifer Phelps: Yeah.

Katherine Morales: But yeah, I think this is almost like a holiday gift one should give themselves.

Jennifer Phelps: And it’s a natural time to reflect, and it’s a natural time to make some changes and goals next year. We literally have to make room for our dreams. In our minds and our hearts in this space, we have to make room for our goals.

Katherine Morales: Exactly.

Jennifer Phelps: We have to make room literally, tangibly and intangibly. They go together.

Katherine Morales: Oh my goodness. Yes. And you’re offering a little bit extra time, making room for a little extra for our viewers, correct?

Jennifer Phelps: Yes. I do a discovery call. It’s about a half-hour call, but I’ve offered that anybody who wants to talk to me about my journey, or about organizing, or just they want to tell me what a jerk their closet is, I’m happy to hear about that. You don’t have to… It doesn’t mean you’re going to work with me or whatever. But I’m happy to take you through the process of fixing, healing some relationships in your space, or just dealing with a systems. Oh, 45 minute call for anyone that comes from you, Katherine. And I have some really fun free opt-in downloads. And if you give me a call, we’ll talk about which ones are best and yummiest for you.

Katherine Morales: Yeah. There might be some DIY parts of what they could get started on before. So it-

Jennifer Phelps: Well, the one that I… The 30 day decluttering challenge, that’s fun for everyone.

Because you can do nibbles. You can nibble at it.

Katherine Morales: Well, that is definitely getting downloaded on my end.

Jennifer Phelps: I’ll get it to you right away.

Katherine Morales: Well, I know you’re going to be tagged here on LinkedIn, but definitely connect with Jennifer here. And yeah, visit her site to book a call, get those wonderful gifts. I can’t thank you enough, Jennifer. Thank you for the courage to discuss this, for empowering me to bring some things to light in my dark corners as well. You’re such a beautiful soul. And yeah, thank you. I am so excited to continue hosting this show into the new year. I think these sorts of conversations are everything we need to hear as entrepreneurs. Not just the, “Here’s how you do this, and here’s how you do that,” and more and more do. This is simply be and share your journey. So thank you.

Jennifer Phelps: Honor your needs.

Katherine Morales: Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Phelps: Thank you so much for having me.

Katherine Morales: Thank you.

Jennifer Phelps: I look forward to talking again to everybody.

Katherine Morales: And you can find a recording of this on my site after this call. But yeah, thank you so much. And yeah, I just want to just reiterate too, like spend this holiday, pause. Give yourself that peace to pause, because I think entrepreneurs can often work through.

Jennifer Phelps: Yeah.

Katherine Morales: But really look around, are you at peace in your environment? And if not, call Jennifer.

Jennifer Phelps: Thank you.

Katherine Morales: Take care.

Jennifer Phelps: And if you want to have your perfect branding and marketing, you talk to Katherine. You talk to-

Katherine Morales: You’re perfectly authentic self, the perfectly imperfect, right?

Jennifer Phelps: Talk to our authentic brand specialist here.

Katherine Morales: Thank you so much, Jennifer.

Jennifer Phelps: Bye.

Katherine Morales: Bye.